There will always be a need to tell powerful stories from some of humanities darkest times. This rings especially true for stories about the Nazi’s and the Holocaust because we have a resurgence of the same sentiment that led to one of the worst regimes in history. Diane Ackerman wrote a story based on real life historic heroes that remind us that we can fight against oppression in a non-violent way with her book “The Zookeeper’s Wife”. With the film out this weekend, we talk with Ackerman about her novel and how it still holds up as a reminder of human kindness in a sometimes cruel world.

I never heard about the story before I read your novel.  Was it hard to collect information on this couple’s life and the Jewish people who stayed at their zoo and the struggles that they went through?

Well, first of all, it’s not a novel.  I didn’t make anything up.  I hope it reads like nonfiction but whenever I’m quoting somebody in the book, and the movie stays very close to the book, whenever somebody is speaking I’m quoting from diaries, from interviews, from accounts and so on.  So, that was part of the research and I love learning.  It was fascinating just piecing together one fragment after another and building a mosaic. 

I really found myself researching this book in layers.  I would learn about the history of World War II and Poland.  I would learn about the culture, the music, the inventions of the era, what was happening with the Nazis and their paradoxical relationship with nature and then the personal life of Antonina.  All of these things required reading in different directions.

But one door kept opening up to another one.  And in that sense, it was a book that was just meant to be.  I came upon the story really accidentally through the animals.  But Antonina, when she wrote about the animals and adopting orphan animals and raising them inside of her zoo house went on to talk about how she was also a caregiver for endangered people.  And that really opened my eyes to what was happening and to the world of the rescuers.

It was so interesting how you described how the animals were so involved in their whole entire lives.  They cared about them like family members.

They needed to be surrounded by animals throughout the war, before, after, during the war, in order for life to feel true.  They were intimately woven into the fabric of nature.  Antonina, especially who had an almost mystical relationship with animals.

What drew you to this story?  Also, Antonina is such a strong woman, did that also draw you to her story?

Absolutely.  This is a marvelous time for the celebration of strong, caring, compassionate, sensitive, heroic women throughout history.  These stories have somehow fallen between the seams.  And that’s partly I think because they’re women and partly because their forms of heroism may be different.  Antonina offers a version of heroism that is absolutely authentic and has always been taking place and is taking place in our perpetually war-torn world today.  But we just don’t hear about it and celebrate it very often.  It wasn’t enough for her to keep the body alive at the expense of the spirit.  

She really wanted to make sure that the people in her care survived with their humanity intact, with emotional stability and not be so traumatized by the horrific events that were surrounding them every day that they were unable to enjoy the rest of their lives.  So, in that sense, she really nurtured them. She was a combination caregiver, protectress, mother, social worker, guide.  She devoted herself to their spiritual care as well as their physical care.  At her lowest moments, she asked herself isn’t this just a sort of hibernation of the spirit.  

She really believed that despite everything horrible that was going on during the war that there would be a time when Warsaw and the zoo would be reborn in the human spirit would as well.  She felt that nature’s patient and that people and animals are fundamentally decent and that the people who are rescuers ultimately, will outlive those who are killers. There were just so many facets of her that drew me to her.  Also, I was a caregiver.  My husband, my late husband, had had a stroke so I was a caregiver while I was writing the book.  Not to the extent that she was.  I really looked up to her.  She was a caregiver for so many people.  But I understood what she was like, to try to bring about the well-being of others and also how hard it is to do your own work when you’re looking after other people.

So, this is something I’m sure that the women in Hollywood identify with today, that they are probably women who have families that they are responsible for as well.  And women have always been wonderfully able to balance the different, important spinning plates of their lives.  Antonina certainly was an example of that. She was holding together an extraordinarily active and dangerous, hungry, desperate, loving household pretty much on her own during the days while her husband was away at work.  And she had everything at stake.

Such a beautiful story.

You know, it’s been a story that’s been so inspiring for me as well.  It really is an example of what so-called ordinary people can rise to and do every, every day.  She didn’t think she was heroic, neither did her husband. I read the accounts of all the rescuers involved and they all said exactly the same thing, that Antonina said, that Jan said, I’m not a hero.  Anyone in my place would have done the same thing.  This was the decent human thing to do.

Was there a scene in the movie where you thought that they had really nailed what you wrote in the book?

I have been absolutely fascinated to see how you translate one art form into another art form.  I knew at the beginning of this movie-making process 10 years ago, that everybody involved with the project was involved for the right reasons.  This is very much a woman’s movie when it came to putting it together.  There were women producers, woman author, woman screenplay writer, woman director, woman main character. They broke a record for hiring women crew members, women designers.  I think that we all identified deeply with the soul of Antonina and realized that the time in the country could be different but the human saga stays the same and women face many of the same forces and the same moral questions today that Antonina had to face.

I knew that they were going to be working their hardest to convey her spirit of compassionate heroism.  And also, the understanding that heroes aren’t people who aren’t afraid.  Antonina was terrified every day.  You’d have to be afraid in a situation like that. But heroes are people who do extraordinary things for others even though they are afraid.  And there was such a decency and authenticity and humanity to Antonina and to the difficulties that she faced and the ways that she triumphed over them for her own growth as a person and for the growth of the people who she was responsible for.

That came through in the writing of this film and in the writing of the script and in the directing of it, in the portrayal through the different actors.  So, I was very happy with all of those elements.  It was really interesting to see differences in how our scripts get made.  For example, I had the luxury of being able to write about the interior lives of the people and tell the story that was desperately frightening for them and urgent every single day for four years. But the film had to somehow compress it into two hours and it was really interesting for me to see how they went about doing that, how they combined different elements.  But I think they stayed very true to the book and to the soul of Antonina.  And I know that Antonina’s children, who are alive, are very happy with it, too.  So, that pleases me and I know it pleases the filmmakers as well.

You touched on my next question, which was whether the children had any comments about what you wrote about their parents.

They loved the book and they loved the film.  And I can’t tell you how happy that makes me.  I went and spoke with Ryszard whom you see in the book and in the film as a very young boy but I spoke with him as an old man.  Of course, he didn’t look that way to me. I looked at him and I just saw this young boy and I asked permission to write about their parents because it would be an awful thing to write about somebody’s parents if they didn’t want you to. At first, he said why would you be interested in writing about them.  I said, well, don’t you think that what they did was extraordinary.  He said no, it was the only life I knew.  

Of course, during the war, they couldn’t talk about what was going on at the zoo and neither could the child.  After the war, the Soviets came in and still it was not popular to be a freedom fighter. So, everything, the whole story of these remarkable people had to stay quiet for a very long time and now finally it could come out of the shadows.  And I think they’re very proud of their parents and rightfully so.

Do you think the powerful message that’s in the book rings through clear in the film?

Yes, I do.  There are a number of messages.  One of the biggest ones is I think that you don’t have to be larger-than-life to be a hero and what ordinary people rise to in every era.  We don’t hear about it very often but if you open your hearts to compassion and empathy, you can discover strength and courage that you just didn’t know you had.  And another message is that we reap what we sow, especially when it comes to love and kindness and compassion.

Today, we are discovering a resurgence of anti-Semitism, of fascism, refugee crises, this was all very much a part of the lives of the people in the zookeeper’s story.  So, I think that is coming through very powerfully today, too.  It’s a cautionary message about the Holocaust and why we need to stay vigilant. There’s also the message of how important individual actions are.  You know, we feel helpless so often, especially when we hear about world events.  Yet, individuals can do extraordinary things.

It is especially relevant today.

It is I think, the message of compassion and heroism as opposed to violent heroism. There are both versions of heroism but not all heroes pick up guns.  A lot of heroes have as their weapons of choice LOVE AND COMPASSION.